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	<title>Comments on: Modeling the processes of urban emergence</title>
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	<link>http://emergenturbanism.com/2009/06/30/modeling-the-processes-of-urban-emergence/</link>
	<description>Rediscovering urban complexity</description>
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		<title>By: C</title>
		<link>http://emergenturbanism.com/2009/06/30/modeling-the-processes-of-urban-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergenturbanism.com/?p=446#comment-230</guid>
		<description>Mathieu,

If I understand your points correctly, I agree with you.

But if I am a developer or a city planner with a parcel of property ripe for development, what conditions or restrictions should be made so that a desirable dense urban development can emerge over time?  That is a question that interests me.

I wonder whether you have discovered some basic rules that would not unduly burden today&#039;s developer, but would provide conditions that would allow for future fractal-generating development that eventually (100 years, 200 years?)  would yield the high-density development that is so appealing.  Developers in the U.S. often already work within numerous restrictions on lot size, frontage, etc. which as you noted do not create the necessary conditions.  Even when the development is characterized as &quot;smart growth.&quot;

Rather than force developers to build high-density mixed-use developments, ask them to build the low-density developments that they seem to want to build, but with conditions that allow and encourage future development that leads to a higher density organically.

Maybe that means setting aside a portion of the parcel for a community center that can become a retail center and eventually a town square, for example.  I don&#039;t know if or how that would work, but that&#039;s one possibility.

What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mathieu,</p>
<p>If I understand your points correctly, I agree with you.</p>
<p>But if I am a developer or a city planner with a parcel of property ripe for development, what conditions or restrictions should be made so that a desirable dense urban development can emerge over time?  That is a question that interests me.</p>
<p>I wonder whether you have discovered some basic rules that would not unduly burden today&#8217;s developer, but would provide conditions that would allow for future fractal-generating development that eventually (100 years, 200 years?)  would yield the high-density development that is so appealing.  Developers in the U.S. often already work within numerous restrictions on lot size, frontage, etc. which as you noted do not create the necessary conditions.  Even when the development is characterized as &#8220;smart growth.&#8221;</p>
<p>Rather than force developers to build high-density mixed-use developments, ask them to build the low-density developments that they seem to want to build, but with conditions that allow and encourage future development that leads to a higher density organically.</p>
<p>Maybe that means setting aside a portion of the parcel for a community center that can become a retail center and eventually a town square, for example.  I don&#8217;t know if or how that would work, but that&#8217;s one possibility.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Mathieu Helie</title>
		<link>http://emergenturbanism.com/2009/06/30/modeling-the-processes-of-urban-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathieu Helie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergenturbanism.com/?p=446#comment-229</guid>
		<description>It is incorrect to believe that the car oriented subdivision is low-density. In most cases there is not enough space left over for any further subdivision of plots. In the latest, &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.47478,-122.89112&amp;z=16&amp;t=h&amp;hl=en&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;smart-growth driven subdivision projects&lt;/a&gt; you are essentially getting a townhouse with identical neighbors, only there is no town anywhere to be seen around it to mitigate this downside. It is density with none of the benefits associated with urban density. Since things are already at their worst, further increases in density won&#039;t be received positively.

The condition for an emergent urbanism project is whether the process can repeat itself within the forms that are set in the previous iteration of development. All of the processes in the model above can loop and feed back on themselves, and thus they are all complex and fractal-generating. They have, however, scale limits. If those scale limits are not respected in development, the feedback won&#039;t take place and there won&#039;t be any emergent urban complexity.

I understand that people like high-density cities. I like them as well. But forcing high-density cities on a process that is not meant to create them, the subdivision process, only serves to make the process worse and not better. It makes enemies of land developers who see the absurdity of the effort, and creates another showcase of the failure of repression to force great cities to exist, and worst of all, spreads horrible type 2 linear process geometry on the landscape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is incorrect to believe that the car oriented subdivision is low-density. In most cases there is not enough space left over for any further subdivision of plots. In the latest, <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.47478,-122.89112&amp;z=16&amp;t=h&amp;hl=en" rel="nofollow">smart-growth driven subdivision projects</a> you are essentially getting a townhouse with identical neighbors, only there is no town anywhere to be seen around it to mitigate this downside. It is density with none of the benefits associated with urban density. Since things are already at their worst, further increases in density won&#8217;t be received positively.</p>
<p>The condition for an emergent urbanism project is whether the process can repeat itself within the forms that are set in the previous iteration of development. All of the processes in the model above can loop and feed back on themselves, and thus they are all complex and fractal-generating. They have, however, scale limits. If those scale limits are not respected in development, the feedback won&#8217;t take place and there won&#8217;t be any emergent urban complexity.</p>
<p>I understand that people like high-density cities. I like them as well. But forcing high-density cities on a process that is not meant to create them, the subdivision process, only serves to make the process worse and not better. It makes enemies of land developers who see the absurdity of the effort, and creates another showcase of the failure of repression to force great cities to exist, and worst of all, spreads horrible type 2 linear process geometry on the landscape.</p>
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		<title>By: C</title>
		<link>http://emergenturbanism.com/2009/06/30/modeling-the-processes-of-urban-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergenturbanism.com/?p=446#comment-228</guid>
		<description>An interesting model, but I hope you have further explanation for your prescription at the end.

&quot;[a] Instead we should be building low density subdivision developments [b] that can grow naturally into metropolitan neighborhoods . . .&quot;

The current car-oriented suburbs satisfy [a] but most probably do not satisfy [b].

I highly doubt that such a community would control growth in such a way as to lead to the dense urban development that we find in the older core of European cities that people find so attractive.

What restrictions should the community be making to retain public spaces and prepare for future development?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting model, but I hope you have further explanation for your prescription at the end.</p>
<p>&#8220;[a] Instead we should be building low density subdivision developments [b] that can grow naturally into metropolitan neighborhoods . . .&#8221;</p>
<p>The current car-oriented suburbs satisfy [a] but most probably do not satisfy [b].</p>
<p>I highly doubt that such a community would control growth in such a way as to lead to the dense urban development that we find in the older core of European cities that people find so attractive.</p>
<p>What restrictions should the community be making to retain public spaces and prepare for future development?</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://emergenturbanism.com/2009/06/30/modeling-the-processes-of-urban-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree until you get to the final hit on smart growth. Modern zoning regulation prohibits the natural sort of subdividing you see as beneficial. Only a transect based zoning system, or no zoning at all, has the robustness to reform itself over time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree until you get to the final hit on smart growth. Modern zoning regulation prohibits the natural sort of subdividing you see as beneficial. Only a transect based zoning system, or no zoning at all, has the robustness to reform itself over time.</p>
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